Comments on: Who created God? http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html A blog about current events from a Christian perspective. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:57:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Alban http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-390 Alban Sat, 06 Oct 2007 19:52:52 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-390 Yet He does not exist without it. A cause is cause by its effects. There is no creator without his creation. An omni-present or all-encompassing God cannot set up a separate state. Everything will always be within Himself. You would have to explain how it would be true that ideas can leave their source, and take on qualities the source does not contain, becoming different from their own origin, apart from it in kind as well as distance, time and form. Yet He does not exist without it. A cause is cause by its effects. There is no creator without his creation.

An omni-present or all-encompassing God cannot set up a separate state. Everything will always be within Himself. You would have to explain how it would be true that ideas can leave their source, and take on qualities the source does not contain, becoming different from their own origin, apart from it in kind as well as distance, time and form.

]]> By: casey http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-384 casey Sat, 06 Oct 2007 08:00:10 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-384 I can assure you, Alban, that pencil drawings are two-dimensional. You can give them the appearance of being three-dimensional, but that's the best you can do. I guess you either get the example or you don't. Anyway, it's beside the point. The point is that the created is subject to the creator, not the other way around. When I say that God is outside of time and space, I mean that he can exist without it. He created it, after all. That does not prevent him from being omnipresent. I can assure you, Alban, that pencil drawings are two-dimensional. You can give them the appearance of being three-dimensional, but that’s the best you can do. I guess you either get the example or you don’t. Anyway, it’s beside the point. The point is that the created is subject to the creator, not the other way around.

When I say that God is outside of time and space, I mean that he can exist without it. He created it, after all. That does not prevent him from being omnipresent.

]]> By: Alban http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-381 Alban Sat, 06 Oct 2007 04:20:01 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-381 I was saying that it is hardly possible that any creator is not subject to the same laws he sets up for his creations, most especially, if there can be nothing outside of an all-encompassing power and God. I don't know if your example is a valid one. Are you really able to create a two-dimensional artwork. Virtually, maybe, but you can never see it two-dimensionally. All the materials you have available, are three-dimensional. There is no such thing as two-dimensional, is there? It is only an idea. You are saying God is outside of time and space. How is that really possible in your perspective? Is He not omni-present and all powerful? But suddenly you have a new power introduced by time and space that constitutes a new set of rules. It even takes his children away from him. He certainly cannot want that to happen. Is He now subject to laws He set in motion? Or, are you saying, everything that happens in time and space happens exactly as God wanted it to happen? Also, where did God get the idea of time and space? It seems like the idea of time and space is antagonistic to God's qualities in every regard. Do you consider it reasonable that God would have such an idea, and even want its effects? I was saying that it is hardly possible that any creator is not subject to the same laws he sets up for his creations, most especially, if there can be nothing outside of an all-encompassing power and God. I don’t know if your example is a valid one. Are you really able to create a two-dimensional artwork. Virtually, maybe, but you can never see it two-dimensionally. All the materials you have available, are three-dimensional. There is no such thing as two-dimensional, is there? It is only an idea.

You are saying God is outside of time and space. How is that really possible in your perspective? Is He not omni-present and all powerful? But suddenly you have a new power introduced by time and space that constitutes a new set of rules. It even takes his children away from him. He certainly cannot want that to happen. Is He now subject to laws He set in motion? Or, are you saying, everything that happens in time and space happens exactly as God wanted it to happen?

Also, where did God get the idea of time and space? It seems like the idea of time and space is antagonistic to God’s qualities in every regard. Do you consider it reasonable that God would have such an idea, and even want its effects?

]]> By: casey http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-336 casey Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:11:44 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-336 Sorry, Alban. You lost me. Yes, created things tend to provide insights into (or possess characteristics of) their creator, but you seem to be arguing the opposite. Why would God be subject to his creation? If I create a two-dimensional piece of artwork, I don't become two-dimensional. I can do pretty much whatever I want to it, but it has no effect on me other than emotional. God does not become bound by time simply because he creates it. Sorry, Alban. You lost me. Yes, created things tend to provide insights into (or possess characteristics of) their creator, but you seem to be arguing the opposite. Why would God be subject to his creation? If I create a two-dimensional piece of artwork, I don’t become two-dimensional. I can do pretty much whatever I want to it, but it has no effect on me other than emotional. God does not become bound by time simply because he creates it.

]]> By: Alban http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-335 Alban Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:47:55 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-335 If God, as you say, created the universe of time, space and matter, is He then subject to these characteristics, too? Did He even lose His fundamental properties, because suddenly there is time telling Him to undergo changes? Why would He even think of such a ridiculous notion of seperating cause and effect by inserting time inbetween? But most of all, the question is this: Can anything eternal come up with something that is not eternal? How would He know of it? Obviously, if God is everything there is, and therefore the cause of everything, there can be no such thing as time, or time is above God. Therefore, your posts needs some clarification, I think. If God, as you say, created the universe of time, space and matter, is He then subject to these characteristics, too? Did He even lose His fundamental properties, because suddenly there is time telling Him to undergo changes? Why would He even think of such a ridiculous notion of seperating cause and effect by inserting time inbetween?

But most of all, the question is this: Can anything eternal come up with something that is not eternal? How would He know of it? Obviously, if God is everything there is, and therefore the cause of everything, there can be no such thing as time, or time is above God. Therefore, your posts needs some clarification, I think.

]]> By: Mulled Vine http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-328 Mulled Vine Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:14:34 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-328 Great golden nugget post, Casey. For me, this is the strongest logical argument for God, that we need an uncaused Prime-cause that is outside the closed cause-effect system. Great golden nugget post, Casey. For me, this is the strongest logical argument for God, that we need an uncaused Prime-cause that is outside the closed cause-effect system.

]]> By: Alban http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-322 Alban Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:32:50 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-322 Would God being benign really put anyone into space/time to exist for a sequence of whatever years? And then have him come back, when this existence ends in the death of the body, whatever that may be? This doesn't make any sense. A perfect Creator could have nothing to do with such littleness. Thank God. Would God being benign really put anyone into space/time to exist for a sequence of whatever years? And then have him come back, when this existence ends in the death of the body, whatever that may be? This doesn’t make any sense. A perfect Creator could have nothing to do with such littleness. Thank God.

]]> By: casey http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-316 casey Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:25:03 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-316 That's what I've always thought, too, Bob. That’s what I’ve always thought, too, Bob.

]]> By: Kansas Bob http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-314 Kansas Bob Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:02:20 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-314 Nice post Casey. I don't think too many folks understand the implications of God existing outside of time. When the scriptures speak of eternity, and the ages of ages, I think that it is a reference to that timeless existence we will experience when we die ... not that I understand it :) Nice post Casey. I don’t think too many folks understand the implications of God existing outside of time. When the scriptures speak of eternity, and the ages of ages, I think that it is a reference to that timeless existence we will experience when we die … not that I understand it :)

]]> By: casey http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-310 casey Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:55:42 +0000 http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/who_created_god.html#comment-310 Yeah, I don't really understand Dawkins' point. I'm sure he is right that it is extremely improbable (impossible) for a God like the Christian one to come into existence, but if he is eternally existent, then the probability of God coming into existence is not the issue. The probability of me existing is 100% because I do exist. The probability of me coming into existence by random processes, on the other hand, is very small. That distinction can be made because I have a beginning. God does not. Yeah, I don’t really understand Dawkins’ point. I’m sure he is right that it is extremely improbable (impossible) for a God like the Christian one to come into existence, but if he is eternally existent, then the probability of God coming into existence is not the issue. The probability of me existing is 100% because I do exist. The probability of me coming into existence by random processes, on the other hand, is very small. That distinction can be made because I have a beginning. God does not.

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